Dec 12, 2010

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Secession is a Bad Idea for Whites

Secession is a Bad Idea for Whites

Is secession a good idea for whites? No.

A good way to see this is to analyze the military, political and social problems that Harold Covington's Pacific Northwest secession movement would face. He suggests that Whites gather in Idaho, Oregon and Washington and use guerrilla warfare to form an independent homeland that is free of non-Whites.

He describes the homeland and the guerrilla warfare, in The Brigade, a tense, suspenseful thriller (Harold A. Covington, The Brigade [Bloomington, Ind.: Xlibris Corporation, 2008]).

The first critical problem with the homeland is that it would be too weak to survive. There are several test cases for this. These are small countries, not much different in size from the Pacific Northwest homeland.

The three Baltic countries, Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia have a combined population of just over 8 million people, similar to the number that the Pacific Northwest homeland would have. (Today the combined population of Idaho, Oregon and Washington is under 12 million.)

Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia once were parts of the Russian Empire. They seceded after the collapse of the Romanov dynasty, during the period of confusion, weakness and disorganization that the Russian Revolution caused. Joseph Stalin annexed all three of these countries in 1940. All it took him was a few meetings and phone calls. See Anatol Lieven, The Baltic Revolution: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and the Path to Independence (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1994).

Finland is another good test case. Like Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, it was part of the Russian Empire until it collapsed. Then Finland seceded, too. Finland, a larger country than Estonia or Latvia or Lithuania, was able to hold off a Soviet invasion for a while during the Winter War of 1939-1940.

Finland started with some big advantages. It had a large territory. It had deep snow and dense forests that confined Soviet invaders to roads. It had soldiers who could travel cross-country on skis, surround road-bound columns of Soviet troops and kill them. It had an excellent submachine gun which its soldiers used against Soviet invaders armed with outdated bolt-action rifles. It had an army with great courage and patriotism. Plus, Stalin had recently annihilated his army officer corps in a bloody purge.

Finland still had to sue for peace after a few weeks.

So, how powerful must a secessionist movement be in order to survive? How much industrial power must it have? How much territory? How many people?

Here in North America, the Northern conquest of the South is a definitive test of the possibility of secession.

By 1860 the South had lost control of the Presidency. It had also lost control of the House of Representatives because the voting population of the North was larger than the voting population of the South. The South still retained control of the Senate by a narrow margin, because the number of senators depended on the number of states.

Southern planters feared that, if they lost control of the Senate, the North would prevent them from expanding slave agriculture to any new states. They also feared that the North would outlaw slavery, once it took control of the Senate. See Marc Egnal, Clash of Extremes The Economic Origins of the Civil War (New York: Hill and Wang, a division of Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2009).

Southern plantation agriculture wore out the land. Planters abandoned worn out land and resettled new lands, further west. This made it very important to them that they could freely bring their slaves to new states.

Unable to solve this political problem, the South seceded. Lincoln decided that he must have his tariffs, so he called for 70,000 volunteers and launched what is so far the bloodiest war ever fought in the Western Hemisphere. The South was enough weaker than the North that it could not afford to make political or military mistakes. But it made them.

Four years of bloodshed proved that the South was not strong enough to secede without the permission of the North. It steadily and gradually lost, militarily, a battle that it had already lost politically before it seceded. Had the South been strong enough to secede without permission, it would also have been strong enough to defend its political interests without seceding.

Secession is an attempt by the politically weaker of two parties to solve, by leaving the field, a political problem that it is too weak to solve, either politically or militarily.

Only the weaker party in a political conflict would want to secede. Only the stronger party would be strong enough to secede without the permission of the other. However, the stronger party would not want to secede because it could force the weaker party to do whatever it wanted.

Covington suggests that military disaster at some distant part of the empire might make the United States too weak to hold on to the Pacific Northwest in the face of guerilla warfare. Maybe so. But this would give the homeland the kind of temporary safety that a Thanksgiving turkey enjoys.

Any place where a secessionist might want to live would be too valuable for the larger, stronger party to give up.

The Pacific Northwest, in particular, is far too valuable to secede in peace. It has valuable hydroelectric power, in a world hungry for cheap energy. The Columbia, its most important river, is 1,243 miles long. Puget Sound gives the Pacific Northwest well-sheltered, world-class harbors. It has a major naval base. Nuclear submarines silently travel its waterways.

What tactics would the United Sates use to keep anyone from forming any independent homeland in such a valuable place, without its permission?

Anything.

Writing in a neocon publication, US Army Colonel Ralph Peters (Ret.) said, “The point of all this is simple: Win. In warfare, nothing else matters. If you cannot win clean, win dirty. But win.”

Anyone who hopes to secede from the United States should expect it to use the same tactics that it has used before, whichever ones promise to work, whatever they might be.

What are these tactics?

Guatemala is a model case. Niall Ferguson, writing in The War of the World, described what happened there after a carefully-planned CIA coup d'etat that overthrew a democratically-elected Guatemalan government. (Niall Ferguson, The War of the World Twentieth-Century Conflict and the Descent of the West [New York: Penguin, 2006], 610-617.)

Paramilitary death squads, the Mano Blanca, roamed the cities and countryside. In the 30 years after the 1954 coup, some 40,000 people disappeared. Mayan Indian tribes were relocated and forced into “strategic hamlets.”

Ferguson says hundreds of villages identified as 'red' were obliterated and their inhabitants tortured, raped and murdered. Surrounding forests were burned. He says there was mass slaughter of civilians. By the end of the 1990s the death toll had reached around 200,000. Because there were so many Mayan victims a UN commission deemed that these deaths were genocide.

Afghanistan and Pakistan are two more models that we can use to predict what the United State government would do to secessionists. Eric Margolis, writing in World News Daily Information Clearing House, said that “Pakistan finally bowed to Washington's angry demands last week by unleashing its military against rebellious Pushtun tribesmen of North-West Province . . .”

He said, “The Obama administration had threatened to stop $2 billion US annual cash payments to bankrupt Pakistan's political and military leadership and block $6.5 billion future aid, unless Islamabad sent its soldiers into Pakistan's turbulent NWFP along the Afghan frontier.” Pakistani armed forces used heavy artillery and gunfire from helicopters to kill Pushtun civilians.

Results came quickly.

Andrew Buncombe, writing in The Independent, said that as many as 2.4 million people fled Swat Valley. One man, aged 90, said that,” because there had been no warning to leave, when the gunfire erupted around them they gathered what they could carry and fled.”

The speed of the displacement, as helicopter gun ships fired on civilians fleeing the Swat Valley, reached 85,000 a day.

This terrorist tactic-firing heavy artillery at little villages and then pursuing fleeing villagers with gunfire from helicopters-could empty out every village and small town in the Pacific Northwest in a few weeks.

Where would refugees go after they were driven from secessionist villages and towns? They would go to camps, drawn there by promises of food, shelter and safety.

Most of these camps would be open-air prisons like the Gaza Strip, or the city of Fallujah, in Iraq, or the concentration camps where the British Army put Boer women and children during the Boer war. There would be harsh control of the perimeters of these camps, using earthen or concrete walls, razor wire, guard dogs, electrified fences, towers, mine fields and high-powered search lights.

All of these tools have been perfected and used. Any guerrilla fighters who remained outside the camps would be pressured to surrender when the women, children and old men in the camps began to die after being deprived of food, water, medicine and sanitation.

Torturers and assassins would visit the camps to cull interesting prisoners. They operated this way during the Phoenix Program in Vietnam. The founder of the Phoenix program, CIA officer William Colby, told a Congressional committee in 1971 that the Phoenix operation had killed 20,587 Vietcong suspects in two years (Hayden, 2008).

Writing in Small Wars Journal, Lt. Col. David Kilcullen advocated a world-wide Phoenix program. He went on to become chief strategist in the State Department's counterterrorism office in 2005 and 2006 and was chief adviser on counterinsurgency operations to General Petraeus, in planning the 2007 US troop surge in Iraq.

Justin Raimondo reported that high officials at the top of the United States Government have operated an assassination ring. He says that Defense Secretary Gates, acting under the authority of President Obama, has appointed the operational l

eader of this assassination ring, Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal, to head U.S. forces in Afghanistan.

It is a huge piece of good luck that government strategy and tactics would make secession impossible. Secession would be a terrible, self-inflicted disaster.

Secession gives the enemy the location of a small, compact target where it can land a fatal blow. It lets the enemy organize its own territory without interference and then use all of the resources of that territory for aggression.

Secession always means the voluntary loss of valuable territory. It loses strategic depth for fighting a war. It loses rivers, ocean front and harbors. It loses road grids and railroad networks. It loses power stations and hydroelectric dams. It loses minerals and arable land. It loses defensible terrain features such as mountain ranges. It loses industrial plants and built up areas.

Secession also loses people. For example a Pacific Northwest homeland would leave out most members of the largest White ethnic group — Germans. They mostly live in a huge semi-circle of land in the middle of the United States, with its diameter on the Canadian border. Their key cities are Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Pittsburgh, and St. Louis.

A Pacific Northwest homeland would also leave out most of the next-largest white ethnic group–the Irish. Oregon and Idaho are not even mentioned on the Wikipedia list of the twenty states with the largest population of Irish-Americans. Washington State has the 20th largest number of Irish-Americans.

And so it goes with all whites, whether they call themselves just plain Americans or mention descent from a specific white ethnic group. All whites are important. So any population transfer to implement any secession plan, of any sort, would be impossible. And that's a good thing because secession would create hostile borders that would splinter families, kindreds, and ethnic groups.

There are three good, recent models for this: Berlin was partitioned into East- and West Berlin. Germany was partitioned into East- and West Germany. Korea was — and still is — partitioned into North- and South Korea. All of these have had — or still have — hostile borders that featured guard towers, road barriers, barbed wire, death strips enforced by mines, machine guns and guard dogs, passport & visa requirements, body searches and other snooping, as well as confiscations, arbitrary arrests and mysterious disappearances.

Borders destroy social capital. Population transfers from one place to another also destroy social capital. There are two different cases here. In the first case, a border partitions an area, leaving a population divided in two, with large numbers of people passively staying in place. In the second case, numbers of people respond to special appeals to move to an area that plans to secede.

People who would be willing to move, as single individuals, to some distant place where a movement is afoot to secede are especially likely to be loners, High Plains drifters — people not tied down by strong emotional commitments to others. They are especially vulnerable to exploitation by agent provocateurs, because so many of their interactions are with strangers.They can be entrapped by honey pots. Their social networks are likely to be relatively impoverished and easily penetrated by malicious strangers. Collections of them are likely to lack small unit cohesion.

People who stay in one place for several generations are likely to be embedded in a rich network of social relationships. Groups of these people have Einheit, the mutual trust and common outlook built by shared experience. They have agreed frameworks for doing things. They have a capacity for deep emotional attachments to each other. Their social arrangements are based on ancient acquaintance, so they are hard for malicious strangers to penetrate and exploit. People who stay in one place have rich mental maps of their physical and social territory. The value of their social networks is very high.

This makes them difficult for a social parasite to exploit.

A lot of thought and effort has been spent to destroy the social networks of American whites, to ruin our Einheit, make us flee from the centers of our cities and turn us into atomized individuals or tiny nuclear families. The key to this destruction has been alien control of the mass media.

Decades of hate speech about whites, in the mass media, has enraged Negroes and made them more and more bold in attacking whites. Mass media participated in these attacks by motivating them, giving them ideological cover, and carefully concealing their nature and full extent from whites. Monopoly ownership of mass media made it impossible for whites to organize a hue and cry to prevent further predation.

As a result, unorganized, individual white families fled from violent crime near the centers of cities to suburbs on the distant outskirts. They abandoned center-city land worth as much as a million dollars an acre, in today's dollars, for land at the outskirts worth ten-thousand dollars an acre today. The economic loss to whites from this one factor alone is in the trillions of dollars. Typically whites sold sound, sturdy old houses on extremely valuable center-city land and bought brand-new houses on small parcels of nearly-worthless semi-rural land. Then their new houses began to depreciate to zero, while the land that they had abandoned in the center city skyrocketed.

The loss of social capital shows up in the reduced roaming radius that parents allow their children. A while ago, I talked with an older white man who probably was 65- to 70-years-old at the time we talked. He said that, as a 12-year-old boy, he rode his bicycle four or five miles to a hardware store. There he bought a 12-gauge shotgun for himself. Then he held it on his bicycle's handlebars and rode home. Nobody thought anything about it, he said.

This would never happen now.

The loss of social capital also shows up in the loss of informal play. Mothers drive their children from one carefully-protected, formally-scheduled activity to another.

White flight — the individual search for safety from ethnic cleansing — has spread from cities to whole states. For example, whites are fleeing ethnic cleansing in California.

Secession is white flight extended to multi-state regions. Flight to a promised Pacific Northwest homeland, for example, is white flight to a multi-state region.

No matter how large the region to which whites flee, it cannot work. A key reason is that white people are wealth, like herds of cattle or flocks of sheep. White people provide valuable habitat and nourishment for parasites of all kinds. So these parasites follow us everywhere.

South Africa is a fine example. The first major permanent white settlement anywhere in Africa started in 1652 when the Dutch East India Company built a supply station for its ships in the vicinity of present-day Cape Town, South Africa. At that stage the nearest Bantu tribes were more than 1,000 kilometers from the Cape.

By the time the British occupied the Cape for the first time in 1795 it had a white population of about 26,000, an estimated Cape Colored population of 20,000 and a slave population of around 30,000.

During the lifetime of the Republic of South Africa Bantu colonists also flooded South Africa, drawn by labor contracts.

South African farmers — the Boers — fled from British control. Everywhere they went, the British followed them and annexed their territory as soon as they had done the hard, dangerous work of settling it. The Boers and their territory were too valuable for the British to leave alone.

In the beginning South African whites had a chance to create an all-white country of their own. However, relying on non-white labor gave white habitat away to non-whites. It gave non-whites a chance to out-breed whites and displace them.

The very slow, slow growth of the white population in the pre-Revolutionary thirteen colonies, of North America, is a measure of how hard and dangerous it is to convert wilderness to urban, improved habitat.

It took 150 years, from 1650 to 1780, for the population of the 13 colonies to grow from 4,600 to 2,780,000.That is an increase of only18,502 a year.

It took just 30 years, from 1970 to 2000, for the Hispanic population of the United States to grow from an estimated 9.6 million to an estimated 35.3 million. This is an increase of more 856,666 Hispanics a year, a mark of how free, easy and safe their increase is. http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/hispanic/hispanic.html

Early America offered slim pickings for Jews, except in the slave trade. There were an estimated 1,243 to 3,000 in the United States in 1790. When Whites finished the difficult, dangerous work of settlement, the Jewish population suddenly leapt from 230,000 to 280,000 in 1880 to 1,508,000 to 2,349,754 in 1910. This was just three years before they took control of the United States banking system with their Federal Reserve system. (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/usjewpop1.html)

None of these millions of newcomers paid their share of the cost of developing a high technological civilization in North America. None had built any roads, laid any railroad tracks, or built any bridges, dams or tall sky scrapers.

We Whites have helped non-whites dispossess us by giving our habitat away for free, after developing it at such cost. If we keep doing this, we will be extinct.

We must stop helping non-whites dispossess us. We must stop running away. We must stop giving free habitat to those who seek to dispossess us. We must take back our land.

This essay was originally published on Sep 3, 2009

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  1. avatar
    Roberrt Jones said:

    In my honest opinion, the initial article and the entire subsequent comment thread qualify as both unjustified gossip, and a rant, about Mr. Harold Covington and his Northwest Initiative resolution.

    Ideas, facts and solutions, along with much needed action, are precisely what Harold Covington is all about. While we squander away our time engaged in this petty exchange Mr. Covington is, at this very moment, working diligently to create a viable Aryan homeland in the real world.

  2. Also, in regard to white nationalist fiction generally, we all need to understand that most of these authors are self-published and never had the benefit of professional editing. Writers will tell you that a good editor will make or break the work.

    I happen to think Mr. Covington has real talent as a fiction writer. I can only imagine how good The Brigade would have been, had he had the benefit of a world class editor, like the late Joseph M. Fox of Random House.

  3. Hey guys, I agree with Ygg that gossip is improper for this forum. I’ve just noticed that while my avatar is taken from LOTR’s Gondor, presently the Eye of Sauron appears by default before those TOQ Online commenters who haven’t picked a specific avatar. To cool off the debate a little I’d recommend a dose of humor. What about the pro-HAC camp choosing avatars related to the members of the “Fellowship of the Ring” (search that sentence in my blog’s entry) and leave the Lidless Eye to the other camp?

  4. How many of the naysayers here have lived in the North West?
    I have and it is ripe. I have not lived in Wyoming.

  5. I think it is important for white nationalists to explicitly reject Harold Covington and his ideas and for a number of good reasons besides his personal failings.

    He constantly attacks whites who in their daily lives are in effect WN’s because of their choice not to associate with non-whites. Yet he slanders them continuously on his website. I am sick and goddam tired of listening to him calling us stupid and lazy and cowardly.

    He calls for heroes and martyrdom (always a bad sign) when what we need are effective strategies for winning – not strategies for getting killed. We can identify our heroes after we are victorious.

    He advocates quixotic “flying squads” of white resistance fighters and other assorted nonsense that will only result in the deaths of the same.

    In short he advocates and agitates for the explicit death and destruction of white people. He is effectively anti-white.

    His doomsday scenarios are absolutely preposterous. The American people will not stand for that sort of disorder. Rebellion will be put down harshly. Transportation, food, and distribution systems will be militarized. We will all be drafted into our respective state militias and the National Guard. People will go along with this willingly if that is what it takes.

    We have more than enough natural resources to maintain civilization in the US albeit at temporarily lower levels of affluence. Just as we did in World War II. In fact I seriously doubt if our standard of living will revert to as low a level that it was in the 1940’s even under the worse case scenarios of complete government default of its debts and oil at $500 a barrel.

    Those are the things that will actually happen IRL as a response to severe “black swan” types of economic events that act as fundamental shocks to the system; not a bunch of damn fool “heroes” running around and shooting our fellow white men.

    The alienation felt by some of you keyboard commandos is having deleterious effects on your ability to reason or to even understand the basic dynamics of your own society and the entirely predictable reaction of your fellow citizens to crises.

    • avatar
      Robert Jones said:

      He calls for heroes and martyrdom (always a bad sign)”

      My dear God, I didn’t realize that Harold actually suffered from the ole Patrick Henry syndrome, so maybe you’re right after all. I mean, “give me liberty or give me death”, is most certainly not the most effective strategy for avoiding “getting killed.”

      Harold does not advocate or encourage violence; he is simply recruiting likeminded kindred to relocate to the Northwest in a valiant last ditch attempt to establish an Aryan homeland here in North America.

      It is not fair to label Harold as “anti-white” for he clearly and unequivocally advocates that WN activists organize to effectively resist and foil the evil machinations of our vile enemies, white, black, brown, or whatever.

      • The wise warrior does not go into battle with the idea of getting killed but with the idea that he will be bringing death to his enemies. As far as I’m concerned it’s better to slip away to fight another day than to die valiantly, but then unlike you I know what I’m talking about. Go back to your comic books.

        • avatar
          Robert Jones said:

          There are no suicidal proclivities or intentions expressed by anything that I, or Mr. Covington, have ever written.

          I truly can’t understand how you can regard someone’s willingness to fight and die in order to preserve and advance our precious race as somehow constituting a Kamikaze mentality.

          If you had bothered to perform even a casual perusal of any of Harold’s novels that he does in fact advocate immediate E&E, rather than gung ho recklessness, when the situation warrants such.

          You really should take some time to become better informed about the Northwest Initiative rather than continuing to impulsively issue unsubstantiated gossip and slanderous insults.

  6. @ He calls for heroes and martyrdom (always a bad sign) when what we need are effective strategies for winning – not strategies for getting killed… He advocates quixotic “flying squads” of white resistance fighters and other assorted nonsense…

    I’m fed up of these misrepresentations. HAC does not advocate Islamist-like martyrdom. Nor does he advocate “flying squads” for the moment. The more I read these criticisms the more obvious it becomes that the critics are unaware of the Butler plan. Have you listened the long podcast where HAC responds such typical criticism? If reading the latest novel is asking too much, that podcast is a FAQ that critics must listen before forming their strong opinions.

    • Good Lord, I just spent the last two hours listening to the podcast and he didn’t really mention my objections at all. He says move to the PNW because it’s white. Unlike you, I moved my family up here years before he came which means unlike you I must “mean it.” BTW, whites who don’t associate with minorities also mean it.

      He talks about how whites will need to engage in revolutionary violence yet doesn’t come up with a plausible scenario for it happening in the PNW.

      He argues that objecting to immigration and amnesty for mestizos should be based on race not economics. I’ll take any reason that motivates people against it.

      He says if we don’t instigate secession in the three PNW states then we will be in for years of strife. I agree with the strife part.

      • You also read the Butler plan?

      • Someone help me out here, please! For years we were told that the secret to saving not only ourselves, but future generations was to vote our problems away; if we could just capture some sort of political power we could legislate all the problems that plague our peoples out of existence. Yet, how can this be true if each year the number of racially conscious Whites is numerically dwarfed by non-Whites whose interests will never be our own? Won’t they simply out vote us on every single issue and keep our candidates out of power? And if we did manage to somehow get one or more of our own in to office are they really going to be able to affect any radical change? Would “The System” every allow its own demise or even slight change that reverses our destruction?

        Now Howard A. Covington comes along and suggests a completely different action, and it seems a lot of people are shooting it down without really giving it a chance. Why is this exactly? Furthermore: If we can’t win by peaceful methods, and we can’t win the revolutionary way, can we win at all?

        Oh, and one last thing: The person who states that Howard A. Covington is suggesting suicide attacks and martyrdom has clearly never read any of his works and should be forced to cite his arguments, as Covington’s works clearly states that he does not want such things to happen because (Paraphrasing only one of his arguments— their are many against the ‘Islamic’ revolutionary method) the good people who fought for a White Homeland need to be alive to help build/rebuild it. Shame on you sir for your dishonesty.

  7. Anybody who wants to learn about these methods who spend their time better reading Lenin and guevarra and Mao. Don’t waste time. But for law abiding whites it just is fantasy that provides excuse for inaction. Meaning lawful actions that go undone. Like running for office. Even stalwart revolutionist metZger did this in the last cycle. But it goes undone. Credit to our friend Jim Russ from new York by exception.

  8. We have a problem here. My calculations indicate that nearly 1/3 of the posts here are from the subversive RUDEL, I’m not sure why CHECHAR is so interactive.
    This fact has badly damaged our ability to communicatio to the Folk.
    Suggestions??

    I once again repeat – you have said far too much Troll-Rudel!!

  9. avatar
    Jimmy Marr said:

    Mr. Covington’s fiction is art. It’s entertainment. It works well in capturing people’s imaginations. Once they express interest, and show potential, they may have an opportunity to meet with the real life people who populate the movement on a mundane level. The one’s I know are very level headed and responsible.

    Plenty of normal Americans watch violent television programs every day. It doesn’t make them crazy or violent, so why should participants in NW Front be viewed any differently?

    • avatar
      Jimmy Marr said:

      From the mouths of jews: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jester

      Distinction was made between fools and clowns, or country bumpkins. The fool’s status was one of privilege within a royal or noble household. His folly could be regarded as the raving of a madman but was often deemed to be divinely inspired. The ‘natural’ fool was touched by God. Much to Gonerill’s annoyance, Lear’s ‘all-licensed’ Fool enjoys a privileged status. His characteristic idiom suggests he is a ‘natural’ fool, not an artificial one, though his perceptiveness and wit show that he is far from being an idiot, however ‘touched’ he might be.[1]

  10. Because of his unrelenting polemical attacks on his fellow whites and his hysterical insistence that violent secession in the PNW is the only way forward for whites.

    • Rudel: Where in his books does it say anything that you have stated? Have you read any of them at all? Also, I see you being very negative without suggesting anything yourself. Would you care to share some of your ideas and suggestions rather then just shooting down the work of others?

      Thank you.

      • For about the fifth time: everything I have said about him is on his website and podcasts including his contradictions and his oft repeated statement that his novels are his blueprint for action.

        Harold Covington was a clown 20 years ago and remains a clown today. And alas, the level of smarts among the average WN commenter on web forums has not improved any from those who were posting on usenet 20 years ago either.

        And as for my views, they have been aptly stated in my posts.

  11. Yeah, Harold has some issues, but at least he’s still trying. I live in Tri-Cities WA and let me tell ya, these white people up here aren’t ready to do a damn thing.
    I think secession is the only catalyst worth pursuing, but if that’s all we can do we’re in for a rough road. To those against it, all I can say is I’m sure every empire had people waiting for people to wake up while things were crumbling.

  12. That’s all fine and dandy, but what’s the alternative? Lay down and do nothing because big bad Uncle Sam might get mad? I reject that idea out of hand. Yes, it’ll be hard. Yes, the US is gonna come down hard. People are going to die. But to do nothing? No. We’re just going to have to do what we do best – be better than the enemy. They come down hard, we come down harder. The US military is an inept, incompetent, disorganized gay dating pool, completely convinced of a superiority they no longer have. Fear the US military? Puhleeze. They couldn’t find their own asses with a map and a flashlight. Fight the US or live with social parasites and savage animals? Clearly fighting the US is the better road, win or lose. Don’t like the plan? Fine, then give us another one, but don’t tell me we’re giving up. I won’t.

    • “Fear the US military? Puhleeze. They couldn’t find their own asses with a map and a flashlight.:

      :rolleyes:

  13. I suggest that those commenting (vulgarly) on the U.S. military’s alleged ineptness, take a look at the military channel that features weapons that are very lethal. incredible technology.

    Also, please all stop the vulgarity and ad hominem attacks. I am already next to disgusted with this stuff and will recommend that the whole ——– forum be ended. I can’t believe that advance and others are members of ——-. Joe Webb

    • Joe:

      This is not a “members” forum. It is a public forum. So you are going to have all sorts of people post comments.

      Stop talking about Fight Club and where it might meet. Look at the url!

      If you are lost, send me an email and ask!

  14. right Ygg. thanks for straightening me out. What is the Fight Club and where to meet…? I guess I am missing your subtlety.

    Then, to return to the major issues here, those who are dying to go down in a blaze of gory, fine. We need martyrs. However, a martyr sets an example for not only his people but PERSUADES others to join. Any violence or threatening behavior is a large mistake.

    Right now the situation we are in demands more prosaic work…town councils, Human Relations Commissions, The Tea Party and Republican outreach, School boards, news sources, and s on. The best way is thru quiet personal contacts , and if that is not possible, then more frontal assaults on the liberal totalitarianism. Go in and speak at the Town Council. In California we have Oral Communications that every public gov’t body, or at least, city councils and commissions must provide. You usually get 3 minutes. Keep smiling but give them facts. Right now it is immigration and crime and education. Go the the school boards with data on brown and black failure. If you got guts point out the wars-for-Israel wasting our money.

    (Google Joe Webb and Uncle Sam and see what i have done for years at demos) Plan a demo of your own. Get immigration and the jewish Wars together in one demo. Get ten folks and a police permit and demonstrate.

    Public bodes know some of this but not all of it. Get into their faces. Demand that the Lies be stopped. Face facts. it. But then they want to know what to do. Now is the time to start talking about racial intelligence and racial emotional difference. I am going to up the ante locally in this regard. Tell them to stop wasting taxpayer dollars on programs that don’t work.

    The fiscal crisis of the State is everywhere. Tell them to stop pouring money down a rat-hole. If we have to build more prisons, so be it. There is nothing else to do except to move toward swift, draconian means, the death penalty quickly processed for more crimes. Rapists die, robbers die. Etc.
    Talk about alternatives to high school…trade schools…if you can find a trade left in the U.S…..

    Covington fantasies are for all the folks who have no ideas. Finally, there is a patience factor. If you have a job and cannot risk talking out loud to folks, then write/research and publish with nom-de-guerre. Then there is individual study. History is far more important than Savati Detri or whatever her name is.

    If you live around Jews, check out what they are up to. In Palo Alto a few years ago I led a fight to stop an Eruv in Palo Alto. We won. Then I jambed up the jews on a rip-off of public money for a disused public school they were renting for at least half of what the space was worth. I won and our very small group won.

    Do a local crime study, or welfare study, or Jewish funding of local pols. I have done local crime studies and taken them to local gov’t venues.
    Fuck the Jews (am I permitted to say that on this site?) Go after our enemies and not our friends !!

    Joe

  15. avatar
    Still Free said:

    After reading this I don’t see why we should bother to regroup in one spot and advertise it…If it is kept secret then OK or else whats our options? The article mentions guerrilla tactics,so with leaders hellbent on killing us for our will to be a free people in our own free land is that our only option left? What does that mean? Bombs, kidnapings, assassinations, sabotage, murder?

    If so,we need to get to work NOW before we get locked up or killed for nothing but speaking our minds!! I would rather die on my own account,fighting our enemies!

  16. Still Free: I see you indeed are still free. YOu may soon be locked up and that is good if you move to “bombs, kidnappings, sabotage, murder.”

    are you paid for your dirty words
    , or do you do if for nothing? Joe

    • avatar
      Still Free said:

      …sorry if you took it that way.I am not payed or work for anyone and didnt want my words to be taken as a provocation to violence. I was simply responding to how the article mentions that uniting in one spot would be stupid and if so, then what other alternatives would we have if the powers that be decide to get us one by one! You would let them arrest you,your family and friends and not fight back? Thats what I was saying! I am not doing anything illegal…OH wait, speaking IS illegal now… Some people think as soon as we mention violence we are feds or whatever,well open your eyes,the future is gonna be a hell of a lot more violent then now and we will have to use this tool to get what we want! The right to chose our own destiny and control our own lives! Or they will kill us anyways!

      Most people are still too afraid to get it and call us feds,cops or whatever as soon as we mention violence… This same thinking brought us to where we are today,nowhere and sinking fast!

      Imagine if the American founders said the same thing!? Imagine if they never fought back? Do you really think they would have won? LMAO Dont wait to get your backs to the walls.Dont wait for your family or friends to lose their lives before you get angry and do something! The world wont fix itself! Thats all I’m saying so dont get any paranoid ideas now…

  17. Not only is secession a case of making oneself vulnerable but it is a case SURRENDERING all the territorial prize that our ancestors had won. Do white people really want to gain just Idaho and few other states while handing the rest over to Jews, Negroes, and Mexicans? Do you give up your torso, limbs, penis, and balls just to save your head?
    Only pussyboys think like this.

    • @ “Only pussyboys think like this.”

      Had you read Covington’s “The Hill of the Ravens” you’d know that reclaiming the Northwest is only a tactic. If an Aryan state is established the strategic goal would be to re-conquer still more and more lost land.

  18. A secession is for wussies. It’s what turtles do, hiding in a shell. It’s what warthogs do, digging into the ground to hide from lions.

    And what does it mean to secede or withdraw into a few states? Hand over 90% of this country over to Negroes, Mexicans, and liberal Jews? Did white people create the US to lose 90% of it to non-whites?

    And look what happened to the Indians. They kept moving west to get away from the white man, but the white man kept coming and coming to take more and more. Indians could not secede from EXPANDING WHITE POWER.
    Secession will only work if whites in seceded states can have nuclear bombs. But even if that were so, secession means surrendering most of US to non-whites. And that is a pussy thing to do.

    Rejection or expulsion, as opposed to secession, can work. The breakup of USSR pretty much meant Russians expelling non-Russian states from the Union. If US were to expel the a few overwhelmingly black and Mexican states, that might be one thing. But when white people mention SECESSION, they mean hiding out in Idaho with guns and setting up Aryan Nation camps. Dumb dumb.

    Of course, the problem for secession is that the most conservative whites are in states like Texas and Mississippi with a very large black or brown population. And mostly white states like Washington, Massachussetts, Iowa, and Minnesota are very liberal.

    What white people must do is use whatever means–political, social, cultural, and even outlawry–to end immigration. Secondly, we must support free abortion to the underclass, especially blacks. It’s better to spend $500 to abort a child than spend $500,000 to house, feed, educate, and raise that child through welfare, affirmative action,and prison cost. Oppose all pro-life crap on the Right.
    Also, white rightists must have lots and lots of kids. AS DON CORLOENE SAID, “A man who doesn’t spend time with his family cannot be real man.”
    All you white rightwing guys, I command you to find a nice girl who’s willing to have lots of kids. If every rightwing family has four or five kids, we can win. WIN ALL OFTHIS COUNTRY. The main weapon is the penis and the vagina.

    • But how do you plan to do it? At least those people moving to the Northwest have a plan, the Butler Plan. If it works, our descendants could re-conquer not only America but even Africa.

      • avatar
        Jimmy Marr said:

        There’s no need to get all worked up about secession right now. At this stage, the best that can happen is that an already White and beautiful geographical area can become even Whiter.

        Look at this thing as an invitation. Some White racialists in the Pacific Northwest are working together to make sure White racialists in other parts of the country know that they are welcome here.

        If some find the idea appealing and want move out this way, great. We’re glad to have you. And who knows, if some start to trickle in, which they already have, maybe this thing will snowball into something heretofore unimagined.

        Stranger things have happened.

  19. US is different from Europe. USSR fell apart but then different ethnic groups had ANCIENT historical claims to their piece of territory: Lithuanians in Lithuania, Estonians in Estonia, Kazahkis in Kazakhstan. But, US is relatively young, and Americans have always been on the move. So, no one had a deep rooted sense of historical claim on any piece of territory. California can be claimed by Anglos, Mexicans, blacks, Asians, etc.
    Lousiana can be claimed by Irish, Anglos, blacks, French, etc.
    Florida can be claimed by hillbillies, Cubans, blacks, Jews, etc.
    No piece of US territory belongs to one group like Poland belongs to the Poles or Romania belongs to Romanians. America has been defined by change and mobility.
    What matters to most Americans is not a sense of “I am an Iowan and Iowa belongs ONLY to my people” but “I am an American and I want the FREEDOM to travel across all 50 states and settle where I want to.”

  20. pussyboys….gawd. what creeps we let speak on this list. Joe

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